Danforth tells Francis Nurse, "[Y]ou must understand, sir, that a person isPlease respond to this statement. Some things to consider:
either with this court or he must be counted against it, there be no road
between. This is a sharp time, now, a precise time--we live no longer in
the dusky afternoon when evil mixed itself with good and befuddled the
world. Now, by God's grace, the shining sun is up, and them that fear not
light will surely praise it" (94).
- What is ironic about these words?
- Is there any character for whom these words are true? If so, which one?
- How might this statement relate to McCarthy's "witch hunt"? How might it relate to present-day society?
- What is the connection between this statement and the title of the play?
Remember to respond to what others have said in addition to contributing your original thoughts.
13 comments:
When I was reading this little speech, I wanted to slap some sense into Danforth. I mean, he works for a court of law and it's his job to consider all the facts carefully and logically before making any sort of judgement. He is so caught up in keeping the respect of the court intact that he cannot see that to refuse to consider evidence just because it goes against the courts current, and possibly false, judgement will only bring the court shame when all is said and done.
I think, though, that this statement really sums up what Act III is trying to bring to light. Act III is when Miller really begins to criticize the injustices of the Red Scare (The play was written, after all, to show the foolishness of that particular time in history). The court is blindly accepting accusations of witchcraft without properly considering evidence, just as they were back when people were being accused of being spies. It's as if the court decided that they will use a catch-22 with all of their trials: If you deny being a witch/spy then you obviously are a witch/spy, but if you confess then you're a witch/spy anyway.
In this quote Danforth is blatantly stating the Puritan idea that the world is strictly divided into good and evil. As Danforth claims, the Puritans could see no gray area, or as Danforth calls it a "dusky afternoon when evil mixed itself with good and befuddled the
world." (94) When Danforth says that "the shinning sun is up and them that fear not light will surely praise it" (94) he is saying that in this time of crisis pepole's true characters come out and they can be seen as who they really are. It relates to the title of the book because he is saying that this situation is a crucible; an even that tests people's true selves. When talking of either being with or against the court Danforth makes it sound like to be against the court is evil; he is demonizing his enemies. This is ironic because both the court and the people of Salem are at fault. It was the people of Salem who become so engrossed with the witch hysteria that they set up trials, but the court is being ridiculous in refusing to consider evidence and accusing people of attacking the court system. I agree with Laura in that Miller is using the Salem witch trials to parallel the Red Scare. When in print it is easy to see the madness in the Salem witch trials, and i think that Miller did this to try and convince the nation that the Red Scare was very similar and just as ridiculous.
I agree with Laura that Danforth is not being a very good judge, but none of the people in Salem during the witch hunts were thinking clearly. Although it seems wrong, many times there is little gray area. Proctor, Francis, and Giles were not with the court, and they were actually against it. So in this case Danforth was correct.
One place i disagree with Laura is the reason Danforth thinks the way he does. It is less about respect and more about power. Right now, the court, and thus Danforth, are in power. if any challenge the court, they challenge Danforth's power and are a threat to him. Throughout history, especially during difficult times or when power is challenged, a government will reduce things to black and white, allies and enemies, in order to protect their power, and further their cause. During WWII, there were U.S. war posters that said "If you drive alone, you drive with Hitler." That it more black and white than the Salem court. Not only is it declaring only two sides, but you don't even have to oppose the U.S. government to be a Nazi, you just need to drive alone. During WWII, the army needed as much gasoline as it could get, and when civilians carpooled, it saved more gas for the army. The very black and white poster reduced things to that in order to help the government and the country.
Danforth isn't trying to help the town of Salem, he just wants to help the court keep power, but it is still similar.
While the people may not like things to be reduced to black and white, us and them, sometimes it is necessary.
This also relates to the Red Scare because during that period in time, if you were not with the U.S., you were a communist. There was no gray area.
This quote shows that the court is the supreme power and that the court is always right. As Cat mentioned, Danforth is showing that Puritain ideas only go in two directions, good and evil there is no gray area. "the dusky afternoon when evil mixed itself with good and befuddled the
world." (94)He means that the world was good an now there has been a corruption and now it is completly evil. In this quote Danforth also touches base on when there is a crisis in the world then people show if they are truely good or evil. I believe that this is sometimes true in society today because; say there is a fire in the school and you were the closest one to the exit, to show you are truely good you would make sure everyone gets out of the school safely before you get out.
I think that people of Salem and the court are not viable and can not continue living life distributing people into categories of good and evil. I think that the people of Salem are really caught up in all the witch trials and want to accuse others for being witches because they have nothing else to do. I also think that the court has such strict guidelines that it fails to let people think outside the box when it comes to witchraft.
This statement is the perfect example of what we have been talking about recently in class. Before the witch trials, there was already a sharp divide between good and evil and little to no room in between. WIth the witch trials now full speed ahead, one can see how the gray areas are removed completely and decisions for the court are made with this in mind. It displays the Puritan self-righteousness. As Laura mentioned, Danforth's comment was disappointing to hear because at one point it seemed as though he would here Proctor out; however, his mind is set on staying true to the court. This point is ironic because isn't the job of the court to see both sides of the story before making a wise decision?
I also agree with Cat in that when Danforth discusses the light finally shining, he means that although this situation is a struggle, one can see how he truly handles tough times and see his real character.
One person who also seems to have these sharp divisions is Parris. Proctor shows Danforth the list of names who support Rebecca, his wife and Martha Correy, Proctor mentions that the people who signed "declared their good opinion" (93) concerning the women. Following this comment, Parris states sarcastically, "Their good opinion!" (93). First of all, why wouldn't the people share their good opinions about the women? Also, the fine line between good and bad. There will always be bad opinions about someone; however, does that mean there can not be good ones also? ON another subject, I was impressed that Danforth ignored this comment made by Parris. HOwever, it was discouraging to hear him split the world into good and evil on the following page.
This quote, as everyone who posted before me has said, is a perfect example of how the Puritans divided almost everything into right and wrong, or good and evil. I agree with Laura when she said that Danford has gotten caught up and it is not right of him to not listen to both sides because, as a judge, that is his job. However, I also agree with Michael when he said that the the town of Salem has gotten extremely chaotic and panicky, and this most likely influenced Danforth's actions and opinions. Many of the people of Salem really did believe there was witchcraft going on, and they were terrified and not thinking clearly. This obviously doesn't make up for Danforth's actions, but it might explain it somewhat. I also agree with Michael's statement that this is about power and Danford protecting the power he has. This is a scary situation for the people of Salem and dividing everything into good and evil, with little gray area, would help the court keep its power and continue with the witch trials. Obviously, dividing things up like this never works in the long run, but it allowed Danford and the court to keep their power over the rest of Salem.
I agree with Cat in that Danforth is portraying the Puritan belief of you are either good or evil when he states the people are either with the court (good) or are counted against it (evil). When he then continues to say "we live no longer in the dusky afternoon when evil mixed itself with good and befuddled the world," it is clear that Danforth is saying there is no gray area. I found this to be ironic because at court, people are supposed to be open to all available evidence along with an open mind, however this was clearly not the case. Danforth already had a pretty strong personal belief on the matter and was not really willing to hear what Proctor, Giles, and Hale had to say. The people of Salem are in such an awful position because like Laura said, if you are accused of being a witch and deny it but don't have any real proof, then you're convicted. This relates to the title of the book because the witch trials were a test to see who people really were, and a crucible is an occasion of a test or trial. What they don't realize is that they are killing off their population by viewing their peers as good or evil based on what evidence they have or don't have. May I add that their information is coming from a couple of young girls who don't really have much evidence that the accused are guilty. I found Act 3 completely ridiculous, especially the part when Elizabeth was asked if Proctor had ever committed the crime of lechery. Obviously she was going to deny it because she wanted to save her husband's name, but because she lied they automatically place her on the evil side. Finally, I agree with the general consensus that Miller is paralleling the Red Scare and showing how absurd society acted.
The part of Danforth's speech which i find to be particularly ironic is the part in which he says that "we no longer live [in a time] when evil mixed itself with good and befuddled the world", because this is the story of the witch trials. The witch trials were a time when many people mixed good intentions, freeing their village of witchery, with bad intentions, such as seeking revenge on neighbors. However, it is also partially true, which is even more ironic, for whereas Danforth means it to prove that those who fight the court are witches, it actullay seems to say that the witch hunt has shown whoin Salem is truly compassionate and who is vengeful at heart. Hence the title of the play, The Crucuble , meaning a time or event that shows a man's true qualities, such as whether he is good or evil. One of the major philisophical flaws of manicheanism is that, if a person with manicheanist views happens to be in the wrong at any time, even if it is by misguidance, according to himself that person must be entirely evil. And since all of us are bound to be misguided on occasion, and we are clearly not all evil, there must be a gray area between moral perfection and a future in hell.
The thing that is most ironic about all of this is the fact that this court is supposed to be helping and saving all these innocent people, when in reality, the innocent people are being condemned and hanged and the "evil" people, are the once who are being looked at as saints. Danforth is saying that there is no gray area at all and that people are either with the court, and therefore god, or they are against the court and therefore the devil. This is so ironic when in fact, Hale, at this time in the book is in a gray area. He firmly believes that there are witches in the world, but at the same time, he is not completely with the court anymore. He is going into the gray area, and by the end of this Act, he is on the side of the "devil", against the court. There are a few characters that I firmly believe, are on one side, and some who are on the other. Paris, Putnam, and Danforth, along with almost all of the other court officials are on the "side of god" or with the court. Proctor, Corey, Nurse and now Hale are all on "the side of the devil" or against the court. There were also people that were in a gray area, such as Hale for a while before he went to being against the court, along with Mary Warren for a short while. This play gives a very good example of how ridiculous the Red Scare was. It shows essentially what happened. You were on one side or the other. And if you were on the "wrong side" you were condemned for it. As Cat said, that particular part of the quote about the light, and how it is basically saying, the true characters of the people will show though, gets right to what the title is, The Crucible. As Cat said, "it is an event that will test people's true selves". The light is coming on and people are revealed as what they truly are. I agree with what Michael said about the way that Danforth thinks. He is only trying to preserve the courts and therefore his power. Anyone who challenges the court, is challenging him, and in doing so, undermining the courts power as well as his. I also agree with Evelyn when she said that people can not simply sort people into two groups, good and evil. The gray areas have to be taken into account. No person is purely good and no person is purely evil. There is a mix, and usually a balance of both. There are some, who have more of one than the other. But there cannot exist such a strict and unwavering split, you are good or evil, no in between. It is simply not possible.
I agree with Laura that Danforth Presents an irrational statement, because to decide that the due process of law will have only one of two outcomes is shortsighted to say the least. (It is easiest to agree or disagree with Laura when her comment is posted on the top). I would say that Danforth is depriving the accused persons of their 8th amendment right not to testify against themselves by declaring that if they refuse to cooperate, they will be automatically proven guilty. Like Laura said, an accused witch in this court suffers a harsh lose-lose situation. An accused person can chose to falsely confess, saving his or her life, but permanently tarnishing his or her name, as (spoiler) happens to Proctor in act IV when he originally chooses to confess. Otherwise, he/she must choose martyrdom by claiming innocence or remaining silent. Either of the latter decisions, in this court, would end in nothing better than an unreasonable prison sentence. Giles, for example, was pressed to death for remaining silent.I would say that McCarthy's own witch hunt violated the rights of accused citizens in the exact same way as Danforth's proclamation seen in this passage.
This "speech" by Danforth is definitely relatable to several aspects of life and also to specific aspects of the story. I agree with some of my classmates in their connections to the story, especially those who thought that this quote is a general summing up of the entire third act.the act seems to bring about the realizations that the trials and the events surrounding them have brought salem to a place of hysteria and that hysteria is making it impossible to use logic in the situations that arise, and to even take a middle road through it all. it is clear, especially when Abigail's convulsions lead to Mary convulsing also, despite originally denying their existence. it is as though fear of being accused has led to the people of salem ignoring all good judgment and simply acting impulsively.
in response to connecting this to present day and to the McCarthy trials, i think there are several verifiable connections that can be made. first off, the McCarthy trials showed the same kind of "all or nothing" attitude towards the persecuted. McCarthy and his followers seemed to think that either someone was all good or all bad and that there was no middle path of righteousness through it all. this also connects to our present day issues with Iraq. in some prior blogs we have noted that President Bush's idea of the axis of all, places the blame on all the people in Iraq and Iran, in stead of those who may be deserving of blame. it is that impulsive and quick-to-judge nature which leads to tragedy.
I agree with Michael in regards to Danforth’s motive. It seems as though he dismisses anything that could potentially question his power. As for the mentioned passage like the others I think Danforth is splitting up his view of the world into black and white. There is no space for those who neither oppose nor support the witch trials. This statement is similar to McCarthy’s approach. McCarthy portrayed the Red Scare as his heroic mission to rid the democratic America of evil communists. For him you could not be communist and a decent American and every possible treat of communism must be eliminated.
Similar to Cat I believe this statement is associated to the title of the play because the witch trials are a test for the people of Salem. This ordeal will determine each person’s true character. I think this is why Danforth’s statement is ironic. The trials show the almost the opposite of what Danforth articulates. Many of those like Abigail and Putnam who encourage the witch trials and are corrupt and self-seeking. People like Rebecca and Elizabeth, who resist the trials and are accused, are upright and moral Puritans who do not break their commandments even when it means they will be hung.
Danforth’s statement describes the Puritan views on good and evil-that they are sharply divided with no unnecessary middle ground. I’m in agreement with Holly in that the irony of this statement is Danforth’s role as a judge. In being a judge, he is supposed to be unbiased, intelligent, and weigh each option. Instead of doing this, the liars and cowards are being looked upon as helpful to society, whereas the innocent people are being randomly accused. Caleb’s point that an accused person is in a lose-lose situation is definitely something that came to mind as I was thinking Act III. The double edged sword that presents itself- to falsely admit and be condemned or to deny and be persecuted- is one that is very clear and very troubling. To imagine that the court, the place where law and order are to be upheld, is in fact bringing down such ideals is unlawful and unjust. This brings about the title of the play which is a trial of moral character. The fact that the court, which represents equality and law, is now corrupted shows that people cannot lean on law for decisions. Their own moral character will have make decisions, and some people may attempt to save themselves over others, bringing out their real intentions. President Bush also declared a somewhat black and white look on the world when he described the axis of evil, or a handful of countries which were seen as wholly bad in the face of America, the beacon of goodness. While this statement may have made people feel safe (as in finally having defined the “root” of the evil problem and labeling it) it in fact does the opposite, as the play will soon depict. Instead of simplifying things, declaring a black and white look on the world confuses and wrongly accuses many.
Post a Comment